Lets All Bitch About School Kids

Don't you hate it when you run across some schoolish person who says something or treats you in a way that makes you feel really down, or just annoyed? Let's all bitch about it!

This page bothers me a bit, probably because I don't like mass generalizations. And not just this page I guess, but the whole idea that people who go to school are lower than we(the un/homeschoolers) are, just because they go to school. Sure, there are plenty of people in school that fit the generalization, but there are also plenty who don't. I know some schoolers who would fit in very well with a group of unschoolers, and I know some home/unschoolers who fit the "school kid" discription perfectly. We aren't all that different from people who go to school. We normally have more of a choice in what we do with our lives than they do, but we're all people. And there will always be annoying/stupid people in any group of people. But that doesn't always mean the whole group is stupid.

• The thing is, we're bitching not even specifically about School Kids as a group, just... how many, many, many of them act. I have several friends who are in school, and they're cool! Nice, polite school kids exsist, but the majority of school kids are sort of obnoxious. That is not, not, not to say that they all are.... just... a lot of them.
• I'm sorry, but that feels like a weak argument to me. Also, where's the evidence that "the majority" of school kids are obnoxious...? This is still a generalization.

This page, from what I've read of it, seems to not even be about bitching about "school kids" but bitching about teenagers in general. Schooler or unschooler, dropout, or anything, I've found some of these "annoying characteristics" in a wide variety of people in the "teenage" group and even in adults, for that matter. Mostly what I see here, though is frustration with the narrow-mindedness of many teenagers, and though this is usually given as an example when it relates to unschooling, I find that many young people have a hard time accepting anyone who is different or that they don't understand. And this can be a result of many different kinds of situations years spent in school with people who come from very much the same background as you, homeschooling in a community or area where people come from the same background as you or share many of your beliefs, growing up in a more isolated setting where you might not have the chance to meet different people, etc.

Heh, and I must point out these prejudices on the part of Unschoolers about Schoolers are just as bad as Schoolers having prejudices about Unschoolers/ homeschoolers. The difference is that Unschoolers often know, or think they know, about what goes on in schools (though there is no "one thing" that goes on in schools, or "one way" schools are); whereas many schoolers don't even know what homeschooling or unschooling is in the first place or know anyone that does it.

Ignorance isn't a crime; if someone acts in a certain way that offends you because you are different from them or they don't understand you (any part of you, not just the unschooler part) it's your choice: you can be defensive, and take what they say to heart; you can ignore it, because you have more important things to worry about; or you can educate them tell them about what you do and what you believe, and try to give them some perspective. The last choice, I think, is ideal, because I think that it's important to make an effort to help people understand, instead of being too angry to do anything. You're entitled to that choice, but if you decide to stay angry and not try to move on or help the situation, you will only come back to that anger when it happens again and more than likely it will happen again.

Unschoolers, for the time being, deal with the fact that (at least as "practicing unschoolers") they are a minority, and minorities get stepped on, discriminated against, and generalized. A bad way to deal with being a minority, in this sense, is to generalize, discriminate, etc., too. A good way to deal with this is by trying to get to the base of the problem, and try to work on solving it in a peaceful manner and including people in and out of school in the solution. How about a page on CompulsorySchooling ? I'll come back later and see if anyone has started it; if not, then I will (I have to go do some things now.)

-Mari

• Heh, yes...I have heard schoolers say things about homeschoolers many many times. My favorite experience with this was early this year when some of my (ballet) classmates were talking about a girl they consider "weird" who is homeschooled. I told them I was homeschooled, and that pretty much shut them up. - Emma

I was a schooler fairly recently, (6 months, which I consider sorta recent...) so I don't really have anything bad to say. But there are the few who aren't exceptionally rude or stupid, but they think home/un schooling is for losers, those are the kids that get to me. And of course the rude, annoying ones, but I'm sure there are some home/un schoolers like that too. *jekissa*

I don't really have a problem with school kids, and now that I'm in college - I don't see how I could. I'm the only one in my program that as homeschooled, so I'm there with former school kids every day.

I have been mocked and stuff about homeschooling when I took a class at the highschool when I was in 9^th grade, and it bothered me, but I realised that it was only the dumb people who made fum of me. Perhaps that's a broad generalization, but screw it. That's what I noticed.

I don't know, I'm not a huge people person anyway....

My bitch: comments like

'wow, you seem really well socalized for a homeschooler'... GR.. sigh... this was actually said to me. that they arent creative enough, well educated enough, or ready to think outside the bloody box. this is of course just ranting... -dawn

I just wish they had time for me *sniffniff-alex-sniff*

I'm sure I'll rephrase what a lot of people have said before me, but I'll put in my 2 magnanimous little cents anyway: what I hate more than anything is being excluded or mocked for some personal difference by people who don't really know me and haven't bothered to delve deeper than a label they know nothing about. And I don't like seeing it done to other people, especially by a group which knows first-hand what it's like to be judged for a small difference. Reading over the paragraph at the top, it sounds like you're not complaining about school kids in specific, (neccessarily) but a judgmental institutional mentality in general, which I can certainly understand and get behind. But because of the title of the page, I felt a need to plunge head-long into my rant. ;)

Also please notice that within our own community we have our own kinds of conformities, and while I don't think you'll get beat up at NBTSC for not following them, they're still there. (Shippy, for example, is universally loved and not infrequently teased.) This has been a big issue for me lately, especially in my queer youth group. When I'm there, I don't have to feel as if I should have long hair and wear makeup and tight little capri pants, but I do feel as if I ought to have a buzzed head, a leather jacket, and know Ellen's newest book by heart. I shaved my head to piss off the pop culture, and my legs to piss off the alternative. What do you do when you're different from the different people?

~Rosie

• Oh! Rosie! E-mail me! I want to talk about the above. roo at hoosierlink.net (and what do you do when you are different from the different people? Become your own people.) ~Jasmine

I don't think this is a very cool page mainly couse them being school kids has very little to do with the person, I admit it does make most schoolers a little more shallow then they'd usaully be, but it's not the school kids, its getting 100 to 3000 kids in the same place at the same time.

It isn't a good thing. Also most of my friends are schoolers and they're really cool, and probibly most people at school are too.

But they just need to hide it couse differant is bad in school sociality mostly (notice I say mostly as it is not always true).

-NickV

All right... (get's her thoughts in order). I feel the need to write more on this subject, because it IS more complicated than just "school kids" and "non-school kids." And yes... it's true, some of MY best friends happen to have gone to school all their lives. Most of them happen to be Quakers, I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it or not. And I HAVE gone to public school. I made the conscious desicion to go. I wanted to see what it was all about and make friends. I stuck with it. I was extremely outgoing and friendly. Mostly, people totally ignored me. Some were nice, they also happened to be completely boring, and very very narrow minded. They are sweet people, but they just don't understand me at all. Granted, I went to school in a very, very small town. After I had been going for a few months, I heard from people in my town, and from people in other towns, that the school I was going to was one of the most cliquish around. I hadn't known that, and it made me feel awful, because I felt as though perhaps if I had gone to school elsewhere, I would have had a chance to make friends. It was a horrible, depressing time for me, and some of my memories still make me cry. So no... of COURSE all school kids aren't bad, narrow minded, etc. I had a phone conversation with Kim a few nights ago, and we talked about how when you think about it, there HAVE GOT to be tons and tons of wonderful interesting people right in your area. There can't only be 10 or so in the whole state! And of course most kids who go to school have never had any say in the matter, and they've been force fed other people's oppinions all their life. I suppose in some ways we should all wonder why the hell most of them aren't WORSE than they actually are. But many many people who go to school bother me very much, even though when you think about it, it's really our whole culture that's bothering me, and they're just the physical representations of it. Anyway, I'm just glad for a place to talk about my BAD experiences with schooled people, because those can hurt, and it sometimes feels very good to just talk about them. Damn, this got really long really quickly! I'll shut up now... ~Becky~

"schoolish person"? oh man. i'm sorry, i realise this is a "blah blah lets bitch because we feel like it" page which is cool and all when taken lightly, but seriously now... you're gonna sit around and bash 'school-kids' because of the way they were raised? i think that's odd, since you're just confining a whole society of children to a specific box, calling them "schoolish" which you use so negatively. i mean, there are soooo many people out there who were shoved into the system as toddlers and were subjected to it their whole lives and aren't aware that there is any other way... they are not all rude and degrading. granted that school is not the most positive atmoshphere in most cases, but i feel the need to defend those whom i've met who have been schooled their entire lives who are some of the wisest most spiritual and learned people i've ever met. and i'm not only speaking of members of a generation long since passed, i'm talking about some of the kids i meet on the street, some children deserve more than to be labeled "schoolish". on the other hand i have met masses who seem terribley unhappy and see nothing else to do with their time than cut others down for being different insisting that it's "their way or the highway", yeah, they're all over the place. i guess i just get sad when people whom i respect so much who are so smart and spiritual, due to some length to the way they were raised, as home/unschoolers, insist on focusing on all the school cretens rather than the beautiful ones. it seems rather contradictory to me. and i guess the reason i am defensive is because i now attend school, and through-out my whole life i have hung around kids who were schooled since kindergarten, and i made a concious decision to attend public school this year. i wanted the change, the experience. and now sometimes i do bash it for it's meaningless rules and unspoken laws. but i feel that having experienced it firsthand, i have some right to do so, as oposed to those home/unschoolers who make unsafe assumptions. i'm not telling anyone they don't have the right to bitch, we all have that right and should use it when we deem fit. and this is a place appropriate for that, among family so to speak. i just felt the need to shed some light on the other side of the argument. perhaps when we insult "school kids" we would be wiser if we saw past the fact that they are "schooled", which we see as the 'other side', and delve a little deeper."schoolish" kids have many problems liken to those of all human beings and deserve a little more credit from us divine unschoolers. -moth

Well said moth. well said! -knuteboy

First off, bravo to whoever started this page. I love you.

Second, I'm on a precision line at skating, where I'm the only homeschooled (I use that term because it's easier to explain to people when I don't feel like giving my Unschooling lecture.) person. This one girl who goes to school is such a bitch! For our circle, a coach put her between two people she didn't know (me and my friend) and she pitched a huge fit about it. It's like, can't you just stand to meet new people???? And her excuse was that she spends all day in school, in a different class from her friend, and she has no one to talk to. Why won't she talk to anyone other than this one friend? She is so.... so... STUPID (for want of a better word)! I mean, you're going to be in a classroom 6 hours a day, 5 days a week, you might as well talk to other people! For the love of GOD!

Third, when I go to the Science Museum or the history center, there are always obnoxious school groups there who pound on displays and run around and hog all the experiments and smash into people. And then at playgrounds where I take little kids that I babysit for, they don't watch out for these little kids! I mean, come on! A one year old is not big enough to get out of your way, so watch the hell out!

Wow. That felt really good. Thanks again to whoever started this page!! -JessicaSkater

Sigh. I have ALOT to bitch about right now. I'm in the high school musical My Fair Lady. (don't ask me WHY I decided to do it again this year!) I'm getting so incredibly sick of the kids in the play. They bring a whole new meaning to the word "schoolish." They are some of the most narrow minded, cold, cliquish, sometimes downright nasty people I have ever met!! And the few people who are my so called "friends" in the play aren't all that much better. They hardly listen to me at ALL when I'm trying to talk to them, and don't really seem interested in my life or interests, but when they talk, they want me to listen endlessly to their problems/stories/whatever. But the play is almost over now, which makes me endlessly happy! Last night this one girl was giving me the usual Unschooler/Homeschooler quiz. "So you don't have to wake up at a certain time?" "But what do you DO all day?" "Are you at an 11^th grade level though?" "Don't you get BORED?" "But how do you MEET people?" And when I briefly told her about NBTSC she laughed and said "Oh my god, you guys actually have gatherings? How cute!" or something to that effect. GRRRRR. Then later she said "What will you do when the play is over? Won't you miss us?" I felt like saying, "And tell me just exactly WHY I would have any reason in hell to miss you?" But what I really said was, "Actually, I have alot of friends and a busy life outside of school."

That sort of thing has been my typical experiences with school kids. Thank goodness I'm unschooled!!!!! ~Becky~

School kids... tend live in their own little world. Some of them are nice enough. Even intelligent and open minded. Some of my best friends are schooled. But whenever they get together, all they can talk about is how boring their class with Teacher A, way-too-time-consuming homework assignments, who's going with whom to the prom, Teacher B vs. Teacher C, that nasty girl who's such a hoochie-mama, Spirit Week (and what their Superhero Day costume is going to look like), and that hottie in Geometry. Even when I try to start a discussion on a political or philosophical issue, the group either a) nods vacantly and agrees with everything I say or b) really does get involved, but the conversation always works its way back to the principal or this group of student activists that are always delaying school assemblies and making everyone late for class.

It's very hard for them to think outside the box. Which is understandable school is their entire life. They wake up, they go to school and spend six hours sitting on their asses, they come home, they do their homework, they go to sleep. So perhaps we should be understanding of their social and intelectual shortcomings. After all, when we're with a bunch of unschoolers, is there any discussion we get into that does not at one point find its way back to Camp and what went on there? Of course, we tend to meditate on the political and philosophical and musical and theoretical a bit longer than schooled kids. And we don't ask annoying questions about what schooled kids do all day. And we (most of the time) aren't petty or nasty to each other or do little power plays. But, for all our liberated thinking and all our bitching about their closed-mindedness, schoolers and unschoolers are more alike than many of us would like to admit.

Okay, I was just talking out of my ass right about then. Of course schooled kids piss me the hell off. And intimidate me, and make me feel like a freak for not wearing brand name clothing. But not all of them are duped by the system or its social side effects, and a whole bunch can be real sweethearts and free thinkers. If you take them in small doses. -Samantha

heh... I kind of wish I could say "Some of my best friends are schoolers" the way I say "Some of my best friends are Canadian/gay/guys who wear skirts/etc." (You know, that sounded really weird. Please take it how it is meant...) But I can't. I've noticed in myself that I tend to gravitate towards friends who bring out good things in myself, and I do not like the me who comes out around schooled kids, or in a school atmosphere. That's mostly the reason why I'm not going to city college this semester. The people there, especially the teachers, have the greatest intentions and really have a lot to teach me. But it's so focused on Grades!!! Even in the acting classes. Just the atmosphere of "Grades equal learning, the slower the buracracy the better the school" is so awful to me. Bleach.

In the play I was in this summer, with mostly schoolers, I conciously chose not to make friends. It would have been easy enough, whenever I did go over and talk to someone they were very nice. But I absorb the way other people see things way too easily. I did and do not want to start thinking inside a box. Granted, schoolers usually have to think inside the box, they don't know anything else to do. But the bottom line is, I Do Not Want To Think Like That. So I stay away.

There are some schoolers who are truely beautiful people. But they're hidden. They have to think inside the box to survive in the school environment. Hate the sin, love the sinner; hate school, love the school kid. ;)

Hmm, this seems to be more a rant on why I have the right to bitch about school kids than actual bitching. Ah well. I don't have much to bitch about.

Hmm, I feel different from the rest of you... I mean, I sort of gave up my unschooler identity recently. I'm just me, and soon I'll be a college student (I'm taking a couple courses at community college, in January) I hang around people who are either high-school dropouts or have graduated from high school or college, and they are great people. To be honest, I don't hang around many people who are still in high school; most of my friends (non-camp friends, anyway) tend to be older than I. When I meet people who are in school, and I don't like them, I usually don't think it's because "they're schoolish". I just think that we don't hit it off too well, just like I don't hit it off too well with some unschoolers. People are people. Some of them are bitches to deal with, but it's usually just their personality type. I know just as many home/unschoolers who are close-minded and abrasive as "schoolers".

-wanderlust the urban pixie

Some kids who go to school are certainly nasty (I met one on Friday), some seem rather sheep-ish and/or superficial, but a lot of them are also really cool! One of my best friends who I've known for about ten years goes to public school and has done so since first grade. Rhiannon, Erin, several other people I know are spiffy and go to school.

To the person who writes they don't want to start thinking in a box, I don't want to seem mean but I'm afraid you already are. I don't know how big the town or city you live in is (and therefore, what the range of schoolers there is like), but you're right, there are beautiful schoolers out there, and we should be conscious of how we put them in boxes. - Emma

• hmm... I tend think of myself more as lazy than putting people in boxes...

• Sorry, Marina. :) - Emma

I was going to write "Would anyone like to bitch about unschoolers?" except then I realized that there's lots of places all over wiki bitching about unschoolers. That's who we are. That's what we bitch about. I think it's pretty cool that there's only one page where we can bitch about the nastiness of schoolers. So stop bitching about it! :P

I think that we shouldn't bitch about certain groups of people eh. I wouldn't want a page lets bitch about girls or boys or black people or mexicans or white people or fat people or thin people or any of these segregations. I go to school. Bet you didn't know that. And I think it's fucked up you would bitch about "me" 'cause I'm a schooler.yeah.Love,Rachel

• I think there ARE pages where people bitch about most of the catagories you mentioned. For example FoodAndYou has a fair bit of people bitching about Fat or Thin people...but in the context we don't notice it's bitching as much. I think that seeing as most of the people who use wiki are Unschoolers, having a page to bitch about our "opposites" is only fair. I don't think anyone here truly believes that all "schoolers" are bad people or anything, but somtimes we get fed up and need to rant and put people into unfair boxes. Once we've posted we can then go back out into the world with more open minds and hearts. If it bothers or offends you, you don't have to read the page. -Lorin

• The problem with that is that it doesn't stop once we go back into the real world. I've seen an unschooler start complaining about "schoolers" around people who did go to school, but very obviously didn't fit the stereotype. Schooler has become something like an insult, used in place of stupid or annoying or clueless, rude or dense. And it doesn't make sense, especially if you think about how many people in the unschooling community have gone to school or are going to college/school now.

hey Rachel, i totally gotta agree with you. i mean, i certainly see the point that some of you have- yes, some kids who go to school can be boring and shallow, but some homeschoolers can be boring and shallow too! some -not all, some kids who go to school aren't as interesting to talk to or as "worldy" as unschoolers because they don't spend as much time "out in the world" because they are in school all day. But THIS IS NOT TRUE OF ALL SCHOOLED KIDS. We lable schooled people "shallow, boy/girl crazed, and bitchy, etc." in the same way that schooled kids often lable unschoolers/homeschoolers "geeks, anti-social, etc." - but we're all people! People are people...places like nbtsc help to bring out the very best in people...but school kids are wonderful too! we are all just educating ourselves in the way that works best for us. so let's not judge each other. Love, Nell

Ithink those who generalize so broadly should maybe think about what being open minded actually means. I liked the Rosie's point about "what if you're different from the different people?" Scapegoating is just another tool of factionalization. Aren't people people? I don't think we should practice such selfishness as to believe that we are somehow superior just because we've had the experience of not being in school.Isn't it the institution, and not the people, who are to blame for the institution's flaws?

Schoolers are generally nice enough people, but they tend to live in the world of school and don't think or talk about anything else. I went to school until this year. I noticed it then, but I could feel included in some of their conversations because I knew some of what they were talking about. I notice it even more now. My 'friends' are incredibly boring to talk to. It's all gossip, which is uninteresting unless you know the whole story. Talking to them one on one is okay, because they'll either stop and explain everything or talk about something else. But get a few of them together and it's confusing.

This may explain why I never see them anymore. I haven't even talked to any of them on the phone for a few weeks. The problem is, this leaves me with no social contact. (I'm whining. Sorry.) - Nikki

 this spot is for every teen that has brushed by me

 this spot is for every teen that tryed to starve me to death

 this spot is for every teen that has gaveen me that fuck off look

 this spot is for every teen that tryed to be like me

 this spot is for every teen that has looked at me and never though
otherwise

 let this spot be knowen

I was thinking about this page the other day, and I decided that I actually do have something to say. In essence, I think I agree with what Eire said, further up in the discussion. It's pointless and actually (I think) unfair to separate people into boxed categories like "schooler" and "home/unschooler", and then judge these people based on the box we've jammed them into. If it is considered injust to scorn a person for their age or their race or their culture, how is any more just to judge them for the way they are educated?

To be honest, I've had almost no interaction with kids or teenagers who go to public school, and I know that because of this my opinion isn't as balanced or as knowledgeably based as the opinion of someone who has. But as I come in contact with more and more people, it gets harder and harder for me to hold on to my predefined judgements. Some of my favorite people in the whole world have gone to public school, like Jackleen, who smelled like ladybugs, and Becca-across-the-street, who dressed as a greek goddess for halloween and was more enthusiastic about my writing than anyone I've ever known. But one of my siblings was sexually abused as a young child by a friend from a family of fervent homeschoolers, and I've had unpleasant encounters with a variety of other self-schoolers, very few of whom were open-minded or even kind.

In my area, there are teenagers who embrace a thousand different ideals and a thousand different styles of self expression. One girl wears her hair bleached a brilliant white with magenta bangs, and walks around in bare feet. Others wear fashionable brands and thick-soled sneakers. A boy I know dresses only in suits, and is a talented musician and artist. . . . not to mention cute. *grins* I agree with some ideals these people have. Others, I despise.

Anyway, my point is that some of these people are un/homeschoolers, and some of them are not. And in the end, I don't think it matters one way or the other. We are all people, and we are all obnoxious and loving and crude and silly and romantic and beautiful and creative and a thousand other things. So why should it matter whether we learn inside a building, or outside on the grass?

Oddly enough, I have a number of friends who go to school but still complain about "school kids" constantly. These same people have never dreamed of the possibility of unschooling/homeschooling. But yes, I do tend to equate school kids with the preppy yuppy brainless cheerleader jock types without thinking, even though I have so many of these friends who claim to be outside of the school kid mold. Or maybe I do this because of these friends. It's easier than we realize to fall into a pattern like that because of the people around us. One day a few weeks ago, one of my school friends was in a bad mood, hadn't slept for 48 hours, etc.... and when something whiny about school popped out of my mouth, he said "you know, you don't have to bash school all the time." I was surprised, mostly because I didn't consider myself a school basher really. And because I'd been hearing similar comments out of him for months and months before this. He apologized to me later and said it was just the no sleep that made him look for targets, but it still got me thinking. Maybe he and everyone else does it just as a kind of defense mechanism. AND to keep their kind of people (the alternative unschooler types) on their side.

That's my piece!

-Mel

the problem i've found, and i havent just found this with schoolers, with unschoolers too (camp people even *gasp*) is when you're different. a camper got rather weird with me when they found out i did't like ani difranco, had't seen or liked some of the movies they'd seen or had't heard of some of the things they had. people are different, people! just because i don't like ani difranco doesnt mean i'm not worth your time. and with schoolers being unschooled in itself makes you differnt. trying to describe unschooling to schoolers and explain that most of your friends are spread around the country is almost impossible. sometimes when with anybody you feel the urge to pretend you know what they're talking about even when you don't, to pretend you like something even when you don't, to courtesy laugh even when you did't think it was funny or did't get it. i HATE when i do that. -emilyoh