Aircraft Carrier Log1

An IRC conversation on May 11, 2000 about the AircraftCarrier idea.

<Noam> About that unschooler aircraft carrier idea.. what jurisdiction/country would we fall under?

<Polyergic> huh?

<Polyergic> we'd make our own!

<Aredridel> under the rules of whatever country we're near... none, if we're 200+ miles out

<Noam> Could we declare a soverign country?

<Polyergic> is that really strictly alwase true?

<Aredridel> I suppose.

<Polyergic> on a floating hunk of metal? .. I doubt it'd be recognised..

<Aredridel> yeah, it's pretty universally agreed upon

<Noam> Well, an american ship is still american, if under international jurisdiction..

<Noam> So would we be american?

<Aredridel> yeah, it is, isn't it. Hmm...

<Polyergic> not unless the ship was property of the gov't, I'd think..

<Polyergic> heh, w'd ahve to cecced(sp?!)

<Noam> But our citizenship would still be whatever it was of course.. I guess we'd be considered just a bunch of people on a boat.. canadians need passports to dock in the US, vice versa..

<Aredridel> secced

<Noam> What are you trying to say?

<Aredridel> secceed , there we go. "leave the union"

<Polyergic> we can renounce ou citizenship was we see fit.. even get a citizen of the world passport

<Aredridel> hmm... probably can't legally work anywhere, then, though...

<Aredridel> yeah...

<Noam> citizen of thw world?

<Noam> Sell which?

<Polyergic> and buy stuff.. we'd have to have trade agreements.. probably some non-combatent sorts of treaties, maybe even protective services..

<Aredridel> hrrm

<Polyergic> yeah, after the guy who left the army in WWII and went to the UN and said "Hi, I'm your first citizen"

<Noam> Didn't know about that.. can you tell me more?

<Polyergic> sell stuff like the software we write, or designs for computers, castles, boats, floating cities, etc, etc

<Aredridel> Mmm, yeah... and always get paid under the table too, when possible

<Polyergic> nope.. he's living in FL now, I think, selling citizen of the worls passports to people who don't want to subscribe to a country

<Polyergic> under the table? why?

<Aredridel> because untraceable is a Good Thing

<Noam> We'd need a lot of income for food & fuel

<Noam> Though we could grow some of our own stuff

<Noam> We'd need a bunch of people with good seamanship skills

<Aredridel> could grow all our food... fuel, though... wow...

<Polyergic> we wouldn't have to report to any gove't but our own... what the other side of the deal does isn't our responsability

<Aredridel> Mmm, yeah... though they could always trade blacklist us...

<Noam> And without fuel, we'd have a problem

<Polyergic> seamanship, diplomacy, engeeneering, navigation, stratigists & tacticians, farmers, gardeners, etc, etc, etc, etx....

<Noam> We could use solar/wind for electricity

<Aredridel> yeah... sails? Not likely...

<Noam> Ooh, yeah, engineering.. navigation can fall underseamanship..

<Polyergic> we don't need fuel to float.. we wouldn't necessarially need any fuel fo move either, tho a fuel-powered backup system would be a good idea

<Noam> Would be a major undertaking

<Noam> Well, how would we move?

<Aredridel> Wind and currents

<Polyergic> they could, but why would they?

<Noam> You don't want to float aimlessly.. you'll get stuck out in the middle of the ocean.. although if we're fairly self-reliant, not a problem

<Polyergic> move re Red October, also electrical propellers/turbines

<Noam> Wind could be hard.. although.. there is a sail system designed for cruise lines

<Noam> Uses 3 gigantic swivel-mount sails, computer controlled

<Aredridel> hmm!

<Polyergic> umm, how big a ship are you talking about?

<Noam> Aircraft carrier

<Polyergic> too small. they're nowhere near self sufficient. and you'd want mote like 30 sails.

<Aredridel> http://www.nbtsc.org/wiki/?AircraftCarrier

<Noam> Saw about that sail system.. on the discovery channel I believe. It'd only been tested on a catamaran then.

<Noam> Well, what in existence is larger?

<Polyergic> nothing I know of

<Polyergic> atlantis?

<Aredridel> Aircraft carrier not big enough? I bet it would be

<Noam> We wouldn't contract our own from scratch.. Actually, an aircraft carrier would only be sold if it was getting too old to be useful.. although as lng as it was that it wasn't up to date enoug for military but as a ship it was still fine..

<Aredridel> hehe, atlantis... Ever read Stephenson's Diamond Age?

<Polyergic> not to grow food on

<Noam> Nope.. (diamond age)

<Aredridel> (hehe... good book)

<Polyergic> we'd have to build our own. or, contract it from some big boat company.. better have our own engineers, etc, etc, etc, tho

<Aredridel> No? CArriers are damn large, and if it's not grass-crops, i bet you cold do it

<Polyergic> the crew quaters on aircraft carriers suck.

<Polyergic> and I think they're all nuke-powered, aren't they?

<Aredridel> No, mostly diesel-powered

<Aredridel> and, yeah the crew quarters suck... but that's fixable

<Noam> Heh.. we wouldn't be sold a nuclear vessel.. nor would we probably want one.. not till we get good self-contained fusion..

<Polyergic> carriers are *barely* large enough to have a runway.. they're big as hell for boats, but their tiny for a village + farm

<Aredridel> yeah...

<Aredridel> but tiny is workable.

<Polyergic> I dunno.. the amount of remodeling we'd want to do..

<Polyergic> espically if we want to use non-pollutive propellants..

22:12:52 > wanderlust has joined #geekcouch

<wanderlust> Hi :)

<Aredridel> Heya, Eryn.

<Polyergic> 'ello

22:14:12 --- Polyergic has changed the topic to: Aircraft Carriers, castles, and dream houses, oh my!

<wanderlust> Do you really think the aircraft carrier thing would work? I was talking to my dad about this, this morning, and he was saying how much power it takes to run them, and how many people you need

<Aredridel> Mmm, I think it's possible. Doesn't take that many people.

<Aredridel> A lot, yes, but not that many.

<Aredridel> and the thing is, it'd have to revamped to be run by less.

<wanderlust> Uh huh... I just think that a big ship would be more practical

<Polyergic> and alot of running it is with the aiplanes.. the ELEVATORS to the runway and all..

Aredridel nods

<Aredridel> A big ship?

<Polyergic> well.. if you want to do farming, carriers do have that nice big flat deck

<Aredridel> An aircraft carrier is a big ship...

<Polyergic> I think we might have better luck just finding atlantis

<wanderlust> Yeah, but it's meant to hold about a thousand people plus aircrafts etc... and I really don't think that many of us would be on it

like reanna was saying, 30-100

<wanderlust> Atlantis sounds good too! *g*

<Noam> We mainly need the space for farming

<Noam> So deck space is the main thing

<Noam> Thus, aircraft carrier. Or supertanker.. but that wouldn't have much usable space inside

<Polyergic> we'd want more like 300-1000, I think..

<Noam> (Plus you have to worry about ballast in the tanks and all that)

<Polyergic> if we want to operate as an independent country..

<wanderlust> I think we should find an island!

<wanderlust> ;-)

<Noam> Ooh, a motile island..

<wanderlust> Any volcanoes exploding now that we could buy later?

<Noam> (Hyperion reference.. Maui Covenant (a place Julia would love))

<Noam> Hmmm.. we'd have problemd fitting enough farm space + solar panel space

<Noam> We'd need a lot of solar panels/wind generators

<Noam> (Some could go ont he tower roof..

<Aredridel> I need to go... I'm gonna take a walk downtown.

<Aredridel> I'll see anyone who's on later.

<wanderlust> What about hydroelectric power?

<wanderlust> We'd certainly have enough water

wanderlust hugs Rick, later!

<Noam> Hydroelectric.. but you need moving water..

<Noam> And if we were moving at any great clip it would be because of powered turbines.. not the other way around.. unless we could use windspeed & those sails, and then hydroelkectric turbines

Aredridel nods

<Noam> Actually, for that matter, we could sell minerals removed from seawater, if we can develop the technology

<Polyergic> hence the engineers, etc

<Noam> (idea from an SF book.. actually, the government? has started a group to peruse SF novels for new technological ideas to develop)

<Noam> See, if you can purify it out of seawater, there's a lot of minerals in there. You just have to process tons of seawater. But on a continually floating ship..

<Polyergic> has to be moving, I'd think.. and not too slowly either..

Aredridel--- is away: Food!

<Polyergic> tho you could have a little pump pushing water through the extractor that wouldn't be enough to move the ship significantly

<Noam> Yes, exactly.. wouldn't take too much power

<Noam> Just the extractor tech needs developing.. and it's not too hard technically, just hasn't been done

<Polyergic> well, volume collected would be roughly proportional to power used

<Noam> (Not a profitable operation for someone to run.. not if they have to put money into developing it first..)

<Noam> Mm, yes

<Polyergic> (yeah, but if money isn't a great big concern that isn't a problem)

<Noam> (But for us, it could be an on-the-side operation.. we've already got a vessel out there.. divert spare power to the extractor..)

<Polyergic> (right.. once the extractor is developed..)

<Polyergic> the biggest problem, and the one that must be ~solved first, is the government

<Noam> In what respect?

<Polyergic> well, e have to all know what the rules are, and play by them

<Noam> Well, unless we declare ourselves a soverign country.. or unaffiliated

Polyergic has thought of making a 'virtual contry' to test various forms of government

<Noam> But you're right, we need diplomatic ability

<Noam> Hm.. virtual country?

<Noam> (You might want to check out Cyber Yugoslavia.. dunno how much they've got yet..

<Polyergic> actually, we can establish ourselves as a player in various markets first.. then move out to see.. then secced..

<Noam> Hm.. how would we establish ourselves first?

<Noam> http://www.juga.com/ (Cyber Yugoslavia)

<Polyergic> like doesn't physically exist, we just have legal interactions and such..

<Polyergic> hmm..

<Polyergic> start selling stuff

<Polyergic> and buying stuff

<Polyergic> and hiring people

<Polyergic> etc

<Noam> Hard to do internationally

<Polyergic> we wouldn't have to if we start before we become a separate nation

<Noam> Oh, establish international ties later..

<Polyergic> besides, if what w sell is the best there is (and I'd like to think it woul dbe), we'd get requests from other countries anyway

<Noam> First make friends with some NorthAm companies..

<Noam> I was thinking trade i ngoods.. we could do that

<Polyergic> not necessarially make friends with.. just make them dependant on our products

<Polyergic> yeah.. I'm thinking trade in products of creativity

<Noam> Ah, that too.. though some friends would be good to get stared with.. sa long as we don't rely on them (and give them power over us)

<Polyergic> designs, etc

<Polyergic> software, mostly

<Noam> Heh.. Bill Gates could do that..

<Noam> If we get a good software company going.. (though a better one then MS)

<Polyergic> of course, friends are nice, but they don't necessarially hold you in place economically

<Polyergic> yeah, and I intend to do just that

<Noam> Some governmental friends (or friends who have influence with the american governmetn) would be handy

<Polyergic> I just need to win the lottery or something so I don't have to work on anything else for a year or two

<Polyergic> yep

<Polyergic> if we could seduse some politicians..

<Noam> Heh, we could offer a slow-courier service.. 1 month+ or your money back!

Noam grins

<Polyergic> heh

<Noam> seduce.. heheh, are we talking getting them intersted in us and our plans, bribing them, or actually seducing them? ;)

<wanderlust> Goodnight everyone

< wanderlust has left #geekcouch

<Polyergic> g'night (:

<Polyergic> I mean politically

Noam grins.. well, you never know..

<Polyergic> well, if that's the kind of politics you practice, you can stay off my boat...

edited to delete my IP address *~Eryn