No Rest For The Weary

I just thought I'd spit out some thoughts here.

I read wiki. I read it a lot, and I have come to know a lot of people here just from reading what they write. I don't talk to people as much as I should, but I feel kinship because we're all so alike in so many ways. Just by being here, living, trying. I'm thinking that there are an awful lot of smart, funny, loving, beautiful people here who are fighting hard battles and going through a whole lot of shit. In fact, almost everyone seems to be feeling alone, or not good enough, discouraged, and terrified. And we're all trying to reach out to someone, and there's no one there. It's strange that we feel so alone, and yet, we are all fighting similiar battles and trying to survive. We have each other, but somehow we're not together. Get my drift? I don't know where this page will go (if it goes anywhere at all), but I just wanted to say something on this.

Eireann, I completely agree with what you're saying. I've noticed how unhappy so many of us seem (myself included). We are fighting hard battles, and maybe we're not supporting each other enough? Or maybe one of our hardest battles is lonliness, and computers just can't do much for that? I don't know, but I'm really glad you started this page. ~Becky~

Yes, that's true... Very good idea for a page. There is just something about getting thoughts out though, whether anyone responds or not... you know someone reads it. Personally... I find it really really really hard to know what to say to anyone who's hurting. I mean, if I'm there with them I can give them a hug or something... but online, I'm just lost. I end up saying things like "I agree" or "hugs" or something. Which is certainly nice. But it doesn't feel like enough. But Wiki is a marvelous place to vent. And people do read things, you know. I read most things. And I love you all... and I am here, even if I have a hard time responding to emails promptly... Um. Anyway. Good idea for a page.

I'm thinking of starting a group at camp. not a clique, kind of an anti-clique actually. I imagine a bunch of us, campers who are scared lonely or just unsatisfied with the rest of the group dynamics, drinking tea and huddled on a futon just talking, writing, and generally being together. Anyone remember the #quiet room on IRC? I imagine it could be like that (though less quiet, since it's camp!) Maybe I'd do a "quiet" workshop during the afternoon hours and/or a getogether during the evening, something like that. It would be easier to support each other at camp, for sure... I agree, Marina, when you talk about not knowing what to say. I mean, in person you can use body language and physical contact, or just listening. I'm not sure how to form a "support group" (or something akin to it) atmosphere on the Internet.

• I really like that idear, Eireann. I think yu'd be surprised at who'd show up....

As someone who is perhaps unusually comfortable connecting to people on-line, I must say that I don't think that the problems with forging comforting intimacy on Wiki are entirely computer-based. Rather, I think that while Wiki is fantastic for discussion and play and documentation and getting thoughts down and keeping some kind of track of a vast number of people... it's a poor medium for intimacy. Not only is in not real time, but it's not time dated, and unless you read it thoroughly every day, it's hard to keep track of chronology. Sometimes people don't sign their names. It takes some time and exploration to navigate the organic growth of the pages, and it's easy to miss things. Some people come and go daily, others weekly or very sporadically. It's hard to tell who's been on, or when. It's nearly impossible to find everything a given person has written.

Now don't assume that I'm saying all of that should be changed. It shouldn't. A lot of those are common design features in listserv and webboard programs that were presumably left out of Wiki deliberately, and in fact, to very good effect.

Other problems are the large numbers of people here, and the haphazard linkages of people who know each other individually and people who don't. And yes, there is inevitably loneliness that goes with having one's community not present in real life. I'm not sure that's a fact that can be changed, but it's something that everyone affected by it needs to address and express and cope with in their own way.

IMO, the only way to bridge the gaps we can is to make an effort to use other media. Yes, we've got the listserv. Yes, we've got cobcastle and #nbtsc. Yes, we've got camp. But there are a lot of us, with a lot of problems and a lot of things to discuss. We need to communicate with each other in different ways to find the things that work best for each of us, for different pairings of us, at different times of day, different times of life, for different topics. You all have tools. You all have power. Have more to say than you could possibly say on Wiki? Make a webpage for it. Want to comfort someone on Wiki who's having a rough time, maybe someone you only vaguely know? Surprise them with a random long distance phone call. If that's too intimidating or too expensive, send them a letter in real mail. Include a poem, a tape of music, some dried flowers, photocopies of favorite comics, drawings, a doily, a packet of seeds, a condom, a scrap of sentimental cloth, a sheet of stickers or a sheet of music, anything! Chat on-line. IM somebody and talk to them about something they've said on Wiki. Set up a discussion channel about a burning concern at the same time every week on cobcastle IRC. Write a cobcastly MUD full of cozy nooks and corners for people like me who need the atmosphere. Record yourself reading a meaningful poem and send the file to someone. "Reach out and touch"it means more than any one of us could know.

Julie(lipse (who perhaps should practice what she preaches?)

People have always told me whats wrong when they're upset. I usually don't mind it. And usually I'm not too bad at comforting. Lots of people spill their thoughts to me though...I can think of so many campers who have called me to cry or cried through chat programs. And usually its okay that they do that. But when you do that, I am utterly incapable of talking about my own problems be I'm a genius at convincing myself that my problems aren't nearly as bad as theirs, that I'm just fine, they're the ones who I need to think about right now...what can I do to help them? There are very few campers who I will spill all my thoughts too...Nao, Rachel C, Irina, Alex bw...People like that...there's a few more out there... Sometimes when I'm feeling awful inside and just want to go online and bitch, its hard for people to come to me with their own problems. I've written out so many pep talks through msn... or IRC etc... You know what? People like talking about themselves. Now, I've got this friend who says I'm always trying to get pity out of people...such as that email I sent out a few days ago to some people, the I love you one? said it sounded like I was looking for pity. So thats not what I'm looking for, I promise. With this message either. I'm not complaining, I'm not telling you people to stop spilling yourselves out at me, really. I'm just spilling myself out for once. ~Jasmine

• even if you do want/need pity..why is that bad? sometimes all we really want is someone to listen to us. just us. it's hard, because you might feel selfish, or ashamed of needing that attention. you might feel like a few friends of yours need it so much more than YOU do, and you shouldn't take it away from them. but everyone needs to have their hour. i think that's what i like most about wiki, is that not only can i be completely self absorbed, but i don't have to worry about taking up someone else's time, or stealing their thunder, so to speak. it's a great forum for everyone to have their say, and for everyone else to reply to it. when you need it, you can ramble, bitch, write, whatever. and when you don't, you can totally be there supporting other people. it's not mutually exclusive, i guess that's what i'm trying to say. yeah. RoyaBoya

Why aren't there communites like camp around our homes...[1]and how can we build them? Thoughts?

[1] are you certain there aren't?

• To me, the camp community means openness. I know people will be accepting of whatever I do. And... most people in the 'real world' (ha) are just not that accepting. I mean, it's been drilled into everyone since we were 3 years old. Don't talk to strangers. Don't accept gifts from people you don't know. Everyone is out to get you. And the really sad thing is, a lot of times they are. Not everyone, but some people are so sad and angry themselves that they really are not thinking of your well-being. Another reason or two camp is so open, I think, is one, because it's small... you can learn everyone's names if you really try hard... and two, previous campers come in expecting to be open, and actively encouraging openness in other people. I think you can make your own community. You can gather people around you who are willing to be open and friendly and creative. But it is hard. And it would probably take at least a couple years. And you will get hurt on the way. But it is possible, even probable. Me personally... I'm fighting a battle with my shyness, my intense introspectiveness. Every once in a while I do go up to someone new and talk to them, and make friends with them, or become better friends with an accquaintence... but it is a struggle for me. It's so easy for me to have an ok time just watching people. More than ok, sometimes... and I completely clam up when people's body language rejects me at all. But I'm working on it. And I know there is NBTSC, where I can open up to the other hyper-crazy side of me. When I visited Roya this past weekend, we went to her community college for a couple hours... and she was almost scared by how quiet I was. Quiet, unobtrusive is the way I am when I am in a college setting, a school setting, a community I don't know. But even a half hour before that when we were walking around a little, I was hyper! I was making a complete fool of myself and enjoying it immensely. Um... this has turned into quite a ramble, hasn't it... Might as well sum it up with my basic view of life: Like is how you look at it. Signing out.