Describe feminity here.
I'm sorry. I will no longer be able to live up to our standards of femininity. I no longer find it possible to be pretty, thin, bouncy, athletic, funny, sweet, strong, buoyant, lovely, small-footed, hourglassish, charming, caring, exuberant, childish, ignorant, sexy, beautifull, elegant, dirty minded or innocent. I realise this turns me into some sort of middle-aged couch potato. Oh well. I quit.
"And then there's femininity.... Heh. That's what I feel like sometimes. As PEOPLE, the very best people are so *damn* strong that they can be gentle. And frankly, that applies to guys a helluva lot oftener than girls. Because with the world the way we've worked it, girls are weak, constantly having to prove their strength. But we're supposed to talk about femininity. Funny how dependant it is on masculinity. I hate the idea that I must be feminine. I like being however I want, and take special pleasure (well not really) in not getting along with typical girls. I'm strong. Not as strong as you...ooh, read this really good book. Till we have faces. By CS Lewis. About a woman warrior queen. Awesome, awesome picture of a strong woman. Ugly picture, too. Something else. I realised, tonight, that in order to have a relationship with someone, regardless of sex, (heh), they have to be stronger than me. Not all the time. It has to be a possible dynamic. Because I need that, I think most people do, and right now I need to be rambunctiously strong and know I'm not going to hurt anyone. ~Wind
I don't know how I define feminine. Feminity is to me symbolic All the women I most want to be like are strong and determined and not always gentle. I don't consider them masculine, or think that I want to be "more like a guy" because I look up to them and would give my eyeteeth to be like them, because they define how I see woman-ness. I feel most womanish when I'm most comfortable in my body, which is usually when I'm building or working very hard physically. My mother was always the carpenter around the house...when the sink is broken or the roof needs fixing, she is the one who handles it. I don't want to be a guy...I want to be a real woman, the way I define it. Femininity (don't forget I mean the typical social definition) is a whole nother kettle of beans...It's a game for me, alternately something I play with, critisize, enjoy, hold in contempt, and feel trapped by and inadequate in comparison to. I want to write more but it took me a foolishly long amount of time to get this far and I think I'll leave it here for the moment. sarah: Ugh, god, have I been there...only, oppositely so. I often feel like I have been rammed into this wacky little stereotype by my genes (i.e. skinny, prettyish, yadda yadda) and so thereby, it is my responsibility to always look and seem ultra-feminine. But...whatever happened to rolling in the mud in springtime? Or, racing all the boys and beating them, or yes, having short hair, kicking your own game? Nike's latest ad campaign annoys me, and yet somehow pleases in this department featuring commercials with boxing, running, generally sporty and tough looking women...followed with a phrase "I wear dresses" What is it about this world that makes us feel so strange and so at odds with our sex? I can't figure it out but I know that everything American seems practically designed to make one feel self-concious from birth. ~Newcomer, Maggie Levin femininity...i have issues with being feminine sometimes. it's mostly because i get caught up in the sterotypes of being feminine. i have short hair. it makes me feel extremly boyish(masculine?) sometimes. femininity:being skinny, wearing makeup, long hair, cute perky nose, "normal clothes"(tightish jeans, form fitting shirts) having ALL the guys liking you...these are some of the things i think of when i think about feeling trapped by a false description of femininity. so to me, femininity is something i most often get trapped in. i get caught up in what everything (mostly advertising and a somewhat more "typical" society) convinces me being feminineis is, and forget to realize that, being female, i am inherintly feminine. peace~sarah c~ Hmmm, lets see if I can give this a go. My issues with feminity stem from the fact that I'm versatile... I mean, I am not just a makeup and boy-eyeing cute girl. I am also a tomboy and I like to travel and get dirty and go on adventures. The same girl who flirts with people and acts coy and quietly mysterious also has crawled through haystacks and hiked a path up a cliff and is a brown belt in a martial art. And... I like that I can be both, sometimes even both at once, but other people seem to have a problem with it... especially my mom. My mom likes it when I wear conservative (feminine) clothes and have an overall feminine look. She likes it when I act mature and quiet. She likes it when I don't get angry, when I'm sweet. This is my idea of sterotypical feminity, I'm sort of throwing out metaphores here: lace, dresses, long hair, makeup, being sweet, not showing when you're angry, crying when you're sad but not too loudly, being thin, tea, cleaning the house, not coming on to men I'm not saying I don't like a lot of this. I do like long hair, makeup, dresses and lace. I like being sweet and coy towards guys (until I get sick of it hahaha). I just don't see why this is the only way I have to be. I want to be able to wear clothes that are not sexy, and get dirty, and hit things when I'm angry. Something interesting.... About a couple months ago, I was really angry, and I got so angry that I grabbed something and hit the wall over and over until I'd put a hole in it. Mom found out and told me that "Connecticut Mental health is just down the street. I think you have an anger problem". Now, I admit that it wasn't the best course of action I could have taken, but if I had been her son, would she have figured it as being a "guy thing"? I don't know. It's hard to tell. Everyone, especially but not only my mom, fixates on how I look. It's like I can do anything I want as long as I look nice. As long as I have nice hair, good complexion, a smile on my face, a little makeup on... I'm so angry about that, because now I feel horrible if I don't look absolutely perfect, and I know that I used to not care about that. THEY made me care about that. Damn them. I try too hard to look cute and sexy for guys. Somehow this became ingrained into my mind that it's the way a girl should be, the way I should be. That's what I hate about the feminine sterotype. Okay okay I'm writing too much, but here's the flip-side. What I like about being a girl, the positive traits I associate with being feminine: Quiet strength, taking care of people who need me, moonlight, Goddess, being an enigma, spirituality, trustworthy, non-threatening, a confident, how I wear clothes, the power of charm and seduction, the way I bond with other women... ~Eire I often feel like I identify as "Feminine". I'm not sure how I feel about feminity, and what it is... I tried to write on this page earlier.
I like being feminine. I like feeling feminine... nuturing, flirty, sweet, shy...
But feminine is not all I am. And I am very glad that I can express that.
Eire, I really like what you wrote above about the positive traits of feminity.
Maybe I'll try to organize my thoughts and write later. Watching 'The Maltese Falcon' and thinking about 'To Have And Have Not'... the female leads in both movies are very different, and play off Humphrey Bogart in different ways. In 'The Maltese Falcon' the female lead is calculating, afraid of everything, and flutters her eyelashes to get what she wants. She's feminine, I suppose. (You knew I was going to get to the point eventually...) The female lead in 'To Have and Have Not' (Lauren Bacall) is very different, although also very female. I'm not sure if I'd call her feminine, though... She's very confident and gets what she wants in a subtle way... and she's very female. I think people are most feminine or masculine when contrasting with someone. Myself, I feel most feminine when I'm flirting. I don't know that anything is especially feminine or masculine in itself... it's all in the context. (note: this was written on heavy antidepresants and probably doesn't hang together too well, I'll try to fix it later if I can) my tough dyke friends call me a femme. but they call gary that too, maybe I can still be a man. if I want. which I'm not sure I do. I mean I am, but I'm not really traggic about coming off as a girl. my "femalness" is fake, but it's a pleasant unobtrusive fake. when I was little, and people wanted to know what I'd be when I grew up, I never said anything, but I always thought "drag queen". I saw victor/victoria and sobbed when vic went back to being a woman. I want to be the most beautiful delicate feminine man in the world. which makes it hard to find my niche. I mean, most trannie boys style themselves butch, they dress and act and Are tough-guys. if I act like I am, I come across as a typical femmie straight girl. I really don't know how much that bothers me. it's easy to play a woman, very easy. but it's still cheating. I mean, when I'm attracted to straight men, and they're attracted to me as a Woman, isn't that tricking them? or maybe I should take to heart what I preach about bisexuality, that bisexuality is about being attracted to people as people, not through a gender filter. I don't know. I know that the evil scary person in my mind's basement is a woman. at least I always assumed so. yes, she is, I feel ridiculous trying to call her a man, she's a woman. maybe if I can make her play nice I can mix us together and we'll/I'll be an Intersexual Person, nothing more. no I can't, she's not who or what I ever want to be. I'm just trying to cop out of being a man, I want to cheat, and sink into the easy role of the Goddess girl. I know all the catch phrases, I can play her beautifully, but it's so completely fake, I'm abusing the truth of the women who are goddesses. I feel so torn and lost and stupid. being a man, being an adult, being alive, are things so much more complicated then I can face. -Miranda one of the cookie-boxes out there that people have actually managed to fit me into. maybe that's why i deny it so stubbornly.. but i know it's true. i'm a girly-girl. i'm a perfectionist when it comes to my appearance, i put effort into looking how i want to, which somehow always ends up how others want me to look.. i like makeup and tight shirts, i like to style my hair just so, i like to smell good! all this fits under the category of 'feminine', i do believe. what's wrong with that? not a damn thing. unless.. i tip the balance beam. it is about balance, isn't it? no one wants to be too much one thing, or too much the other. sometimes i fear that i let my girliness get the best of me, and in my eyes that's unnattractive. have you ever met someone that can easily be called girly and masculine? i have. and those people are the sexiest, strongest, most attractive people i've met. i long for that. not that i can't be sexy or strong or attractive without being a tough-guy.. i just am insecure about how people see me, and if they tend to focus on my girly habits. hehe, when i cut my hair super short, i was terrified that i looked like a boy. you know what? i actually looked more girly. how ironic. i don't whine about breaking nails.. i bitch a little when my hair doesn't look perfect, but i don't think i'm shallow or flimsy. i'm a camper, a hiker, a mountain-climber. if i really had to defend myself, i could take someone down! i think.. but now i'm just trying to prove my self-worth. that's sad. i don't need to do that. i'm more than just a girl. i'm more than just a boy. i'm more than just a person. i'm a little spirit staying in a hotel-body, trying to make the best of it. love yourself so you can love others. though i would be a /damn/ good looking boy...
-moth
okay, well, i have a lot of thoughts on this issue...but i don't really have much time left so i'll just say one thing. i was reading this book by henry rollins & he was talking about his feelings (aww, so sensitive). alot of them were feelings that i could totally identify with, even the really negative ones that would make him harm himself or the really antisocial fucked up ones...not necessarily that i always feel like that but i definitely sometimes do. and then he started talking about how he'd get so angry and just beat the shit out of people and that would make him feel better. and i'm like, what the hell. cuz when i get angry the LAST thing i'd do is hurt anyone physically...or even try to hurt someone emotionally. i don't know if it's cuz guys have different hormones and just get more angry or what. cuz you know sometimes i really would like to slap someone who's being an asshole, but i don't, and i think it's basically a matter of being conditioned to put other people first. that if i'm angry then what i should do is try to soothe the person who's being a jerk until they stop, instead of reacting, cuz i've been taught that reacting in anger only makes me feel good and it doesn't "solve the situation." but what's so wrong about doing something to make yourself feel better? it's weird how it's a feminine thing to turn your feelings inward on yourself, it annoys me that a teenage girl who's angry at her parents feels like starving herself is the only solution to those feelings, and it really pisses me off that when i have strong emotions i feel like i have to cut myself so i can make them go away and behave like a rational person and help society out. i guess to some extent it's natural for women to be more passive and receptive but i think alot of the neurotic behaviors women are forced into in this society are obviously not natural and i'd really like to figure out a solution. -jenny Sometime last week, my parents told me that they didn't like how I dressed. I asked why, logically wanting to figure out just exactly what they didn't like...and I was somewhat shocked by what they had to say. My mother's main complaints: That I need to wear more skirts, more pastels, just dress more FEMININE and get away from trying to be so PUNKY. My Dad's problems were even more inflammatory: I dress in things that are unbecoming, in poor colors, low class and hopefully I was trying to not attract boys, because so far, I'd done a really good job of that. While holding back tears and calmly walking out and hiding in my room...I thought about what they'd just said. My mother, when she was my age, was very girlie. She wore skirts, she wore heels, did her hair, got fake nails, wore make up and perfume everyday. And it drives her absolutely insane, how I dress. Because I'm not that fond of dresses. There are some I like The most "girlie" thing about me is my hair, I suppose. Its long. Its really long. Dark blonde-ish brown....(when its not red or purple etc) and I happen to take great pride in it. But you know what? When its starting to look just slightly oily or whatever, my parents are the ones to jump on it. Its my hair, isn't it? I'm not very girlie, I don't think. I don't think I'm exactly masculine either though. What if you don't associate with either? I'm attracted to both sexes. I've got long hair but I wear boy's clothes sometimes. My mother wishes I was more girlie. I think my dad would too. And I know if I did, I would hate it. Geez. This is not really on topic or making sense. ERGH. I'm gonna erase it later, I think. Everyone read it quick before I delete it. ~Jasmine
Conventional femininity is one of the stariotypes that I've been in full-fledged token rebellion against for a few years now. I have carefully weeded out (or at least become hyper-aware of how I use) conventially female clothing, colours, actions. Some of it I'm genuinely uncomfortible with (I dislike wearing skirts, or other constrictive clothing or shoes, unless I'm performing, which is a different spaace entirely for me (and, I'm thinking, deserves it's own rant)), most of it just frustrates me how directly it feeds into a way of treating people based on assumetions and staiotypes rather than actually looking. I try to make people look. Not at a female, with all that goes along with that, but at the essence existing in this body I inhabit. It's amazing what does the trick, too. An unnatural shade of hair, a butch gait and leather jacket, a necklaace of paperclips, a girl in my arms. I have no desire to be seen as masculine, rather, I am extreamly uncomfortible with fitting too deeply into any box unless it it one I have had a concius hand in creating. Femiminity is just one of the most encompassing boxes. -Tessa, who may add more later. When I think of feminity, clothes don't come to mind. The definition of feminity is not very definite, it just means what it is to be a woman: womanliness. Well, I am a woman, I am a person, but I am a woman-person. I see the world through a woman's eyes. I (more later)
Hmmm, it's funny but I don't feel trapped by being thought of as feminine. I'm not terribly feminine but I do wear the clothes, walk like a girl, whatever, I look girly a lot of the time. I keep trying to think of ways to say I like to be feminine but I don't think that's really it. I like some parts of being feminine and some of being masculine. I like to wear skirts but that doesn't stop me from lifting big ass furniture or leaping around a play structure. Doing those things won't keep me from being 'feminine' either. I guess I don't feel trapped by either one because I won't stay in either box long enough for people to put me there and if they do they're swiftly surprised because I change that box constantly. That said, I actually think femininity as a concept is kind of stupid, because all I think it should mean is 'something women do' but it isn't, it's a specific list of some things some women do. And if men do them, they're feminine men, but that's dumb too, men can't be women. They can act similarly but that's not the same. In my opinion both the words 'masculine' and 'feminine' are just to narrow to describe anything or anyone. Which would be why I can't stay in either mold for longer than a minute. -Robyn, rambling I agree with Robyn..."femininity" literally means just that: being feminine; being female; being a woman; not being male. It's grown to mean something else entirely though, as alot of the writings on this page show. And I agree with alot of them too...people have grown to see being feminine as something you do, a set of rules, a set of things you either have or don't have. I hate it, and it makes absolutely no sense to me. So what is stereotypical femininity to me? It's something that I think most girls have been conditioned in since birth. Stereotypical females are cute and may pretend to kick ass in movies and such, but always end up being sweet and harmless in the end, with the men saving them and doing the real ass-kicking. Females are supposed to be basically helpless. They're supposed to care about their appearance. Always. They're never supposed to look bad or ugly, or if they do, they're supposed to be mortally ashamed of it. Their biggest goal in life is supposed to be Getting A Man. That's the only real way they can have status. Their bodies are not their own. Whether they're dressed in high-necked frilly dresses, or in a leather bikini, stereotypical females are always supposed to think of how other people see their bodies, and dress accordingly. Being stereotypically feminine means that you can be good at things, just not better than any men you're competing against. It means always thinking about other people and how to please them. Ok, but that's just a stereotype thank God. And I absolutely HATE it!!! But none the less, it's a stereotype that alot of us have grown up with. And doesn't that all boil down to sexism? Or something like that? And speaking of that...why don't we have a page on Wiki about SexisM? As far as I know, there's no page for this; and I mean...we have a page for everything else, and this is a really important subject!! Hmm...all my thoughts are kind of confused right now. I think this is a confusing subject. Where do you draw the line between actual femininity, as opposed to all the stereotypes, as opposed to how we really are, as opposed to sexism? They all seem incredibly interrelated to me. Ok, I'm going to shut up for the present, because I feel like I'm really rambling, and also just kind of re-hashing what everyone else has said. ~Becky~ This morning, I was in an odd mood. I put on this little red tank top and lacy underwear and bright red (fake) vinyl snake skin pants and a slinky black over shirt and *gasp* make up. My hair was all clean and I felt good. I went out to lunch with my parents and I turned to look at my mom and she stops me and says "you are wearing eye make up, right? because if your eyes look that pretty without make up, i'm going to hate you." She said it with a grin. She was fooling around. Dad looked up and said "oh good, she just got the idea that she only looks good in make up reinforced in her head." My mom back pedaled.. no no, I was only trying to say her eyes looked really pretty.... Ergh. Mom, gee thanks. Now I want to wear make up again tomorrow, maybe mom'll compliment me. Maybe some guy in town will notice me. Maybe I'll look in the mirror and have the courage to smile. But I don't want to learn that behavior. It hurts. ~Jasmine Haha our parents sound alike now. I fucking hate it, the way I now wear makeup not for me but so other people will notice how pretty I am... so they'll love me and compliment me. Fucked up fucked up. Robyn and Becky, yes it makes sense what you are saying. I have always associated being a girl with a set of dos and donts, but what you're saying is true. Feminity is simply the essense of being a woman, no matter what you do. Just like masculinity is the essense of being a man. But now I feel like I'm rehashign everyone else's words, so I'll come back later. ~Eire I've never really put much thought into what is feminine of masculine. I guess I've always thought of feminine of masculine as traditionally femimine and masculine. For example: Feminine = putting more effort in to looks, more of a sensible reserved attitude, natuarally graceful, and occasionally dependent on men. Masculine = less effort into appearance, louder, less careful, more free. I don't know how to re-define it to modren PC standards. To confuseing. I think I was the only girl in the Power Shuffle not to say she considered herself feminine. Althought I dance, have long hair, do theatre, and enjoy dressing up. I some how feel too clumsy about everything to really be feminine, and the little voice in my head tells me thats bad. Although I enjoy dressing up I sometimes feel like its more of a costume thing, and I feel like a drag queen. Another thing. Why does everyone associate skinny with feminine? Is it 'cause it's "in" now to be skinny and since girls are supposed to care more about there looks they try to be skinny? I thought it was "in" to be skinny because it was more boyish and therefore "stronger". I don't consider my self skinny at all, (I've been told I'm skinny and I've been told I'm fat) and I'm used to people telling me that I have such a curvy feminine body. And aren't curves (breasts and hips) the most exclusively female body parts there are? So there's my two cents. -Susannah
I don't remember thinking much about "being a girl" until I was around 11 or 12. Before that, people were people. I was always better friends with guys than girls. Well, i FELT like better friends with the guys. I had a lot of girl friends too, the girls who would come over and we'd play dress up, and we'd go door to door selling crafts we'd made, and we'd play soccer out on the front lawn. I would only see the guys at school (i went to school till the end of 4th grade), so I guess there was a difference that was imposed on me, I just didn't realize it then. But I would argue about books and author's intents, get them to teach me the rules of basketball, and laughed and joked with them. I guess I was lucky in the fact that I have never once had someone tell me I couldn't do what the guys were doing. I was the fourth grade tetherball champion, the 'walking dictionary' and best friends with both Doug AND Nora. That's just how things were, we never thought about being different, we were just all a part of mrs martin's fourth grade classroom, and there you have it. I remember the first time I started caring about my appearance, when I brushed my hair without my mother forcing me. My sister commented on it, and i was embarrased. that was the first time i ever thought that there was anything different. I liked being strong. Strong and capable seemed to walk hand in hand for me. I've NEVER liked being at someone else's mercy. And when comments were made about the fact that I'd suddenly taken an interest in my appearance, it felt like they were saying I couldn't be strong if i cared how i looked. that was really hard. So we started homeschooling, but for the next year I still saw a lot of my schooling friends. I went to the fifth grade play, and walked back stage. I was amazed at how they'd changed, just in one year. The girls were on one side, the guys on another. The guys were protesting the makeup they had to wear, and the girls were talking about their best colors. Maybe this was a very one-sided view of things, because it was just a few minutes look into their behavior, but it still symbolized a great deal to me. and i was really glad i'd avoided that. Or so I thought.
I started wearing makeup, that just seemed like the thing to do.
The differences in being guys and girls were being thrown in my face. Guys DID stuff, girls TALKED about stuff. that was what the norm for our group was. I hated it with a passion. I hung out with the guys the majority of the time. But instead of being labeled "masculine" or anything, i was labeled as a flirt. A flirt because I'd rather be doing things than just sitting around and talking. This continued for the greater part of 2 years. We stopped going to that homeschooling group, and I got involved with HSC.
Suddenly gender differences didn't matter anymore! it flip flopped again. Everyone was so open with everything, guys in drag, girls wearing guys clothes, etc etc. It felt so good not to have to be defined as either feminite or masculine. People were people were people. I could be strong AND wear make up if i wanted to. If you talked to a guy, if you had all guys as friends, that didn't make you a flirt, and if you DID flirt that didn't mean you were evil or something (good thing. ;)) AND on top of that, flirting wasn't associated as a Feminine thing to do.
I'm not sure what the end point of this long ramble really is, other than the factthat it's nice to be in a place where you're comfortable without needing the confines of a label. I think people need to decide for themselves what values they're going to get out of being feminin or masculine, and choose what they are going to incorporate into themselves. it's a wonderful world where we can actually do that.
I really used to have big issues with being a girl. I really, really, really wanted to be a guy... pretty much for the same reasons Susannah listed above. I used to equate femininity with weakness and masculinity with strength I hate asking my coworker's help with lifting this big, heavy plant I can't push uphill by myself 'cause it's three-quarters of my bodywieght. I can't stand it when someone tries to do something for me or keeps me from doing hard physical labor. I love feeling my coworkers eyes on me when I swing a pick ax really fast or lift something they wouldn't guess in a million years that I could. I enjoy walking big and standing with my feet spread all strong and planted-like. But conversely... I swing my hips when I walk. I wear make-up to go "out". I detest it when Greg (a carpenter) calls me "burly mamma" I like walking down the street and being noticed, but I hate the whistles and stares. I like being asked to dance, but I hate thinking about the reason why (my chest). I'm finally enjoying my new, slim boyish body... and I hate being told that it looks "good" and "trim". Even though I like it. Even though I hate it. I hate the "slim" trend, but I like the attention my body gets me. Sometimes. I still really don't consider myself feminine, and implications that I'm "butch" both insult me and make me feel self-confident. I think my bigest issue with being feminine to the degree I am is... I like doing things and being strong. I just don't want to be unattractive because of it. -Samantha
~Becky~ Femininity's a cultural thing. In the dictionary it says womanliness... I was at the dictionary website, I saw the word feminity here and thought, "dude, I've been spelling this word wrong all this time!" : } Hehe.. Feminity.. Female. My mama told me a story about a teacher she knew who had a student named Female. She pronounced it Feh-mah-leh. Using the latin vowels. Her mother was from Mexico and came across the border to birth her; she told the nurse to give her daughter an American name. That's what the nurse wrote. The woman grew up in Mexico. I wonder if she ever changed her name. I think I would... What sort of view of Feminity would a person named Female have? Female.. Like having your sex stamped on your forehead. Some people do, I suppose. But that's according to other peoples' perceptions of sex, gender. According to your brand of cultural gender roles. Some people believe womanliness is about dressing a certain way Me Not everyone defines feminity the same way. To me, it seems like the troubles come from when people try to define it beyond body parts. Even though feminity's more than that to some people, it's more complicated than the way one person sees it... (But I'm not sure if I'm making much sense right now. Maybe I'll read this over again later when I'm not feeling sick. :} ) -Mari This is totally not a comment AGAINST the Feminity page, and I definately DON'T think it should be taken down or anything.. I just wanted to say that I find it really really intresting that this page is already twice the size of the Masculinity one. It's kind of the reason I started the Masculinity page in the first place. -Zen
Well, but there are also more girls than guys around these wiki parts, aren't there? I finally got my head together around gender when I figured out that my gender expression And in the words of that heartstopper Patrick Califia (back when he was she, and Pat): "There are always more than two choices. Always. Always. Always."
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