Some Thoughts

Here's some emails I saved from people's ideas on creating community, in response to an email I sent out sometime in February. If you'd like to be taken off here, ask me and I'll take it off. If you want to add your thoughts, feel free to! ~Eryn

From Eryn:

I've been thinking a lot tonight, after having a very good conversation with Jennyrose about NBTSC. In my thoughts I was reminded of the last unschooler's weekend I went to. At the end of it we gathered around and people voiced their thoughts on the weekend. Sarabeth's thoughts on it were some of thoughts I've been having about camp tonight. She said, that although she enjoyed the weekends very much, she wanted to bring that kind of community closer to her, instead of having to wait every six months to experience it.

Camp was an amazing experience for me. Life-changing, actually. There was an incredible amount of community there, unique and amazing people, people who really love me for who I am. People I can talk to about things I really want to talk about. People who have visions, people who want to change the world around them. And now... It's been a long time since camp, and I keep in touch with many of those people. They're my friends and fellow travelers.... but... we're so spread out. It's only at camp that we're all together, but when we're all together, our energy is (I know, I have to use this word again) AMAZING. Intense, wonderful, powerful.. The thing is, I want that to be a constant in my life. I don't want to have to wait for a year to experience that again. I don't want to be inspired for one week (or even two) out of a whole year and then be pulled away from it!

Maybe it's the idealist in me talking, but I seriously think that if everyone was more connected to each other, the world would have a lot less problems. I'm not sure how we can go about connecting more. Internet doesn't cut it. Internet is wonderful, a life saver even.... but it's not only through words that I want to be connected. I want physical connection, emotional connection, intellectual connection, just that kind of energy that only comes from a bunch of awesome and unique and wonderful and powerful PEOPLE being together and sharing ideas and really understanding each other. Do you know what I mean?

I don't know how to go about this, but I think that if there's one way I can save the world, this would be it. Connecting people is something that I'm good at and love doing. I want to bring the world together. I know that's WAY too hard, but I'd like to start with what I can control... if I knew how. Any ideas? What do you think? I know this is vague and I wish I could make it less so, but I'm doing more stream-of-consciousness thinking than anything else. This "connecting people and the world" thing is just something I want to do. I think Grace had the same kind of idea in mind when she started NBTSC, but I'd like to move beyond that. Camp isn't enough. And I'm not sure what is, but I think if we pooled together our minds and resources, we could find it.

~*~

From Jennyrose:

• yawns and wonders why the hell she's doing this, but does it anyway*

ok. wellllllllllllll................ i'm personally not going back to camp mostly because of the price, and i think that spending $450 on a week is insane, much less spending $900 on two weeks! wtf?! yes they are amazing yes beautiful yes you meet the most incredible people youve ever met in your entire life, and yes, you can meet them elsewhere. Ahem. i'm tired of getting myself into huge arguements about whether camp is worth it or not and opinions on grace and camp and all o' that, because i have strong personal reasons that i'm not grace's most adoring groupie (no offense, y'all) and that's that. At this point, $450 is either worth it to you, or it's not. It's not for me. I'm not going to spend that much money (which is fuking insane!) on camp, no matter how much it's changed my life (a lot, let me tell you) or amazing it is. I'm not going to tell anyone what is or is not worth their money though, when it comes to camp. If you have an extra $450 or $900 go ahead. However, I'm looking into starting my own camp, and i know for a fact that it's possible to run a camp on a maximum of $300. Yes, you have to splurge less, and no, you can't have camp myrtlewood or completely organic foods, and yes, you arent going to make any money off it, and yes the campers have to work more, but it's very possible. *sighs*

I want to know why it is that camp has to be our ultimate goal? Why don't we create our own community? we have it right here! why do we have to go to camp and see these people only once a year, when we could have them be a big part of our physical lives? find the people you love and admire and connect with, and figure out a way to spend time with them! I just got back from spending three days at Robyn's house with robyn, rick, fuzzhead (jayme), noam, charlie, peter, shippy, dawn, rachael, and kate; and we went to a party at Mel and colleen's house, and it was equally as amazing as nbtsc. I connected really closely with all of these beautiful people. i dont need a once a year week-long camp to feel like i have control and connection and love and peace in my life! So far this year has been the one with the most outside-of-camp get-togethers. New Years, and Robyns house and the wisconsin get-togethers and i'm sure more. i dont get why there cant be more? when i'm old enough, i want to move to corvallis and live with these people because theyre my tribe. there's no reason why this can't happen!

~*~

From Rosie (in response to Eryn):

You know, I think one of the things that bothers me about camp is people regarding it as something impossible to experience more than once or twice a year, so I think it's great that you're looking at it from the angle of "How can I make this a constant thing in my own life?"

Well, are you looking at this really holistically? (As in connecting the whole world?) Or more immediately (as in making a community of campers in your day-to-day life?) If it's the latter, the obvious answer to me would be to start an intentional community of all of us lovable geniuses...;) It wouldn't necessarily have to be living in the middle of a tempeh farm in Oregon, either...And it wouldn't necessarily have to be an intentional community, but just living in eachother's vicinity... we could all choose a place to rent apartments (say, Eugene, Seattle, San Francisco, or wherever) Cohousing is cool cuz it means you keep your own place and have your own kitchen and stuff but often share meals with eachother and maintain a community without the teeth-gnashing of cohabitation.

Community is a big issue for me...I think it is for a lot of unschoolers, and probably people in general... I think the way that standard American society is set up is very anti-community. I could get into historical cultural rants about its formation, I'm sure! ;) I think that standard American society is pretty screwed up in general, of course....one book Grace has in her catalogue which I thought looked cool is called "Creating Community Anywhere"....I'm going to get it on inter-library loan when I have a chance.

Community is different from just having friends...it's a network and a place to belong. But you definitely want friends to make a community... I don't make friends at the drop of a hat and while I can make pals if I want to I like my friendships to be very deep and close, and I'm not good at doing that by scratch.

One thing I beleive about camp is that it isn't just that amazing people go to it (tho that is certainly true) but that camp generally brings out people's amazing aspects and can make you bond very quickly and deeply. I think that it's quite possible with a lot of campers that if I had met them someplace beside camp I would probably have thought "they're nice" (or maybe "they're crazy!") and been on friendly terms with them, but I wouldn't have gotten to this level of friendship with them. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that Amazing People aren't really so few and far between, but you need to be in situations that bring out those qualities.

~*~

Eryn (in response to Jennyrose):

Jennyrose: ::However, I'm looking into starting my own camp, and i know for a fact that it's possible to run a camp on a maximum of $300. Yes, you have to splurge less, and no, you can't have camp myrtlewood or completely organic foods, and yes, you arent going to make any money off it, and yes the campers have to work more, but it's VERY possible. *sighs*::

Why sighing, darling? It's a wonderful idea! :) And btw, people could bring their own organic foods if they wanted. At the last unschooler's weekend I went to, I brought millet bread and quinoa pasta so I wouldn't have to eat wheat. It saved me a lot of trouble. I'm sure a camp could work the same way.

we create our own community? we have it right here! why do we have to go to camp and see these people only once a year, when we could have them be a big part of our physical lives?::

I wrote to Rosie about this too, and she wrote back a wonderful and insightful reply. One of the things she said was that she thought America (and I suppose Canada as well) was set up in a very anti-community type of way. As much as we like to say so, we are NOT a global village. However, that doesn't mean we'll never be...

~*~

From Ryland:

Eryn, I know exactly what you are talking about, and I think it is posible, I know it's posible, I almost have it.... almost, :) parts of my life feel very much like being with unschooler at camp, maybe it's because so much of my life is with unschoolers when they are not at camp, but I also have that kind of conection with alot of my other friends... I don't know how to tell other people to do it however, but, I'm working on it!

Being around alot of unschoolers, and other like minded people helps... and if you don't knwo alot of people like that, then need to meat them! where do you do that? ... where do you spend you time? (other then at home) I've met alot of amazing, interesting people in alot of places, of course it helps alot if you are willing to talk to people you don't really know (yes, talk to stranger! even though your mother may have told you not to) it still might take some time to gane trust, and become close to them, but you get what you put into it... (maybe I've wondered off topic a little bit...it's late, ok) I hope that helps some anyway, the real world is a amazing place, enjoy it!

~*~

From Jenny G.:

Hmm...I have to say I agree with Jennyrose, i mean when you think about it the whole idea of summer camp is completely artificial, and geared towards catering towards helpless kids who need you to provide dorms, cook their meals, schedule their days, and make rules. The idea of spending so much money on a week seems insane. It's not that I can't make enough money to go to camp, but I'm certainly not making enough money that I can spend it on camp without not spending on other things that are important to me. yes I loved camp and everyone there, but I would also have loved to be able to travel to the west coast for the new years gathering ... after all, the money I save on camp can be used for travelling to see camp people! And I certainly don't need all the things that camp money pays for ... dorm rooms, adults in charge, organic food that I don't have to lift a finger for, structured workshops instead of sort of an organic "this is cool let's try it" approach - there's nothing wrong with any of these, but that doesn't mean they're the best approach.

So in short, I'm trying to decide if camp's worth it to me. Or if I'd rather buy a guitar. I'm worried that I should register or register for a scholarship but I fel sort of dishonest doing that when I have these doubts. But yeah camp was one of the most amazing experiences of my life and should I be putting a dollar sign on it?

~*~

From Courtney:

the most depressing thing that plagued me when i got back from camp was that my old life paled in comparison to the brilliance of the deep connections i formed that week. life suddenly meant so much more, and it seemed stupid to settle for anything less. so i guess ever since camp, i've been transforming the rest of my life. it IS becoming something that feels like camp to me. i'm focusing very much on developing connections, especially. because it's totally the way people are supposed to interact! i must say, i'm making some bigtime progress. especially at school, where in the past i've felt sort of isolated and insecure. this is my last semester there, and i've decided to make it the best one.. i go each day with the desire to experience lots of deep and important things, and so far, i have been :) it's still a process, like everything, but it's progressive :) so as someone who IS doing what you're talking about, take it from me: it's possible!! :)

and about changing the world, i think the most important thing you can do is change yourself. start developing deep connections with your fellow humans, and people around you will observe the joy it brings and will not be able to resist being a part of it themselves :)

~*~

Jasmine's email, that Eryn forgot to save:

I have heard so many wonderful things about NBTSC . . . and I also am in Compuhigh, where more great things are said. It sounds like a get away from the insane people I'm around usually. The question is basically coming down to is it worth it to spend that much money on one week, and how you can make it so you see each other more often.

Wouldn't it be great to somehow set up a resort type thing that was year round? Not a place like Myrtle Wood or anything where other people did the cooking and everything, but buy land, put some of the necessities on it, and have it open to stay whenever you wanted? There would be a price, but maybe you could trade it in work, or in payments or something. Isn't that the type of thing that everyone actually wants?

I've wanted to go to this camp for a long time...This is the first year that my parents are allowing me to go, since it is all the way in OR and from IN that is a ways away, and I would be traveling by myself via train. It was wonderful the day they told me that I could go. I was ecstatic. And yet, look at all the doubt that's circling around in these e-mails . . . Now I don't know what to do. Do I go even though some people say that it is too much money? Do I spend the money on something else? I'm going nuts! I want to meet you all so badly, even though none of you actually talk to me, I've been reading every message that comes through avidly. And I am confused now.   Jasmine

~*~ From Eryn (to Jasmine, who had an idea about a resort center for unschoolers... unfortunately I didn't save the email):

That resort idea of yours is awesome. I would LOVE for something like that to happen. I know that there is an unschooler's resource center up in Amherst, Mass. where unschooling children/teens can come and hang out, share ideas, find out information... and stuff like that. It was started by some public school teachers, I believe *grin* I think it would be awesome if there were more of these type of resource centers around. Even if they were just a small room rented out in some building (although I'd certainly prefer having land too!), I bet they could work. What do you think, peoples?

~*~

From Ryland:

the last few days I've been thinking too, about a place for unschoolers to gather. and how to go aobut doing something like that, and the resons to do something like this, I mean, once you ahve a few unschoolers in one place, what do you do? what resons would you have for people to come? I know that people will bring their own interests, so they can sure them with everyone else, but why can't yo do that where you are? so I was thinking... yeah, where I am.... good idea! so I think this summer I might try to have some small unschooler weekends around here (ie, WI) (if your intersted, this is still very much in the idea stage, so please! don't flood everyones mail box) and I was also thinking of trying to do some class type things, up to a week long 1-3 people, learning whatever they whanted to, if I was also interested in it, and had resorses, (this is still just an idea) so maybe if I ever get organized enough I'll do this, if not, maybe I have inspired someone (one of you!) to do this kinda thing... I'm not sure how soemthig like this would work, or if everyone has to varyed of intersts to do something like this, or lives to far away, or is to broke, or bissy, but as I said, I'm not organized enough today to get this done...so for now it stays a dream, but one can alwas dream.

~*~

From Jennyrose:

i remember at the end of session 1 in '98, ben and zack were talking about the idea of a community for nbtscers. they agreed that whichever nbtscer wins the lottery first has to buy it, along with a big purple school bus to carry everyone around in... ;) of course, that isn't very realistic, because the chances of a nbtscer winning the lottery before they're 60 aren't very massive (especially since you arent even able to geta lottery ticket until youre 18) ... blah. whatever. anyway, but i think that the idea is really feasable if we're serious about it(and i know i am). a communal living space that a bunch of people put money into... somewhere that's not in a city, but is close enough to a city that we aren't way out in the middle of nowhere (since i know *I* and i'm sure other people too would feel clausterphobic living in the absolute middle of nowhere with no access to *music stores* and *copy shops* and *bookstores* and such...

the question is, how serious are y'all? can this happen anytime in the next few years? can we really stand eachother that much? dawn and i had some interesting conversations about this... i'm definately planning on moving to corvallis when i turn 18 (perhaps even earlier). that's a start.

~*~

From Eryn (to Rosie):

Dear Rosie,

Well, I'd LOVE to be able to connect the whole world, but I'm looking at this more immediately... as in connecting the people I know and can relate to Not Back To School Campers and other friends. It looks like an intentional community is already being started up, in Corvallis Oregon. I swear, everybody wants to move there! :o) Nick and Casey moved there and so did Rick, and Robyn lives there already. Jennyrose wants to move there, and I'm looking into moving to the area when I'm eighteen (god, that's such a long time away!) I'm not sure how long it's going to take to make this into a community, but I think everyone is already starting to connect :))

I definitely agree that the way American society is set up is very anti-community. I find it very hard to connect with people, unless it's at a place like NBTSC... but camp can't be forever, and we have to take that and make it into something that reaches out to everyone at less of a cost, you know what I mean? I wouldn't mind co-housing with someone.

What you said about camp and the people there really opened my eyes. That's something that I feel too, but you definitely expressed that very well! :o) I definetly think there are a lot more amazing and wonderful and intelligent people in this world... most of them are just underground! :)

Are you going to camp this year? Which session? I'm going to the second session, just got my confirmation today, in fact. I'm hoping you're going to that one too. Anyway, I'm thinking of holding a workshop about this. I even have a title for it, lol.. "beyond NBTSC". I'm thinking of asking Grace to help me with it, because I think this is definietly something she would be interested in.

~*~

From Eryn (to Jennyrose):

Hmm... well I could get my dad to enter the lottery! I'd give him money to buy some tickets and then pick some random numbers and hope it'll be enough to get a big purple school bus *giggle* Lol!

(out of curiousity... why was the color *purple* picked for this? why not green, or blue, or rainbow sparkles???)

But yeah, I'm definitely serious about this. I'd love to move to the area around Corvallis (I'm not sure where, since I haven't seen much of Oregon yet) right now, but being that I'm only sixteen, that probably won't happen for awhile yet. So, I feel rather separated from the rest of you, and I'm not sure I can help with this community/people connection thing right away, but I know that there's other people besides me interested in this, so I'll be supporting you as much as possible and trying my best to do this kind of thing myself as well. I'm wondering if it's worth it to "start local". I know a community is something that you should be committed to, and if I start an unschooler's resource center or something like that in New Haven and then move away in a couple years to Oregon, isn't that a lack of commitment? I would much rather start doing this in the place I *really* want to settle down in, among familiar faces, ya know? I want to be fully dedicated in this project (projects? or just ideas, dreams? everything starts from dreams, though...), even if it takes a couple years to really get started. I think we definitely can start doing this now, though... if we all work together (I know this sounds cliche)

I get the feeling that this letter sounds really vague... but my brain is churning so that's something, right? :)

~*~

Rick (replying to Jasmine's email that I forgot to save)

The idea has been forming in a lot of people's brains. Part, I think is natural for teens and young adults, those people who don't have families to take care of yet. The idea of living togetehr is really appealing when you can find a group of like minded and compatible people... Which is part of what worries me. I get along with most people, there are a few I don't like. Most people are the same... The problem is that each other person's likes and dislieks may extend a little further than your own, so finding people that are not only compatible with oneself, but compatible with each other's friends is difficult.

Not everyone thinks they can do it. Some people treat it as an unrealistic dream, others as a 'nice idea' that will never happen. There are a few who really want it. Those people are the ones who I think will make it happen, and the others may just drop by for visits. I have no idea how long a community like this would last. In typical unschoolerish lackadaisical fashion, I think that we'd not have any plan for the duration of the thing, but people would come and go, those who still wish to remain would do so as long as they wished, and those who want to move on would do so as well, making room for others.

That is one of my dearest dreams, and not just dream but daydream, as well as influencing part of what I do with my life. I want to make something happen, and I'm not sure what. A logistically easy, small group in a big house, who are open to visitors at most times, perhaps? Or a large space where anyone can crash? Maybe... Maybe... I don't know. I just know that there are a lot of very dear people who I want to see on a regualr basis, and a whole bunch of people whom I think sould be in the same class once I get to know them.

Aaanyway, this is it for now, I have more on this subject, for sure, but my brain is dry right now.

Later all, Ari (Rick)

~*~

From Jenny G.:

After reading the tremendous amount of email generated by the idea of an unschooling community, I just wanted to add some random comments, I'm not going to quote the things I'm commenting on because I'm lazy :)

It seems like a lot of you are idealizing unschoolers are being really special people who are more deserving somehow of being your friends, or not only that, but if you're somewhere remote, your only friends/family/connection to the social world. I don't think there's anything wrong with liking some people more than others, but I know lots of special people who go to school, or don't but don't label themselves unschoolers. And wouldn't living somewhere like Corvallis limit you to those few people you chose to live with, instead of simply adding more unschoolers to your life?

Also there's probably a bigger issue involved than just leaving your family behind ... this whole idea that you're supposed to "move out" when you're older is totally artifical.

I mean, right now I really do want to be a more independant person, which would involve travelling, and relying less on my family, maybe even moving in with friends, or (gasp) being less dependant on my friends too. But there's more to leaving your hometown than just your family, or even your friends, there's also your routines and knowledge that takes years of experience to acquire, like where to find used mandolins or other random shit...I'm not saying there's anything wrong with starting over, but it's nothing sacred, it's just something that happens when you're ready. Moving out before you're ready is a big mistake because you do all kinds of stupid things becuase there's SO much to figure out all at once...At least that's how it is for some people I know.

Is this making any sense? I've just been thinking about it alot because I've decided, based on my college experience so far, that there's a LOT more to life than what my parents seem to predict for my future and while being "normal" might be incredibly fun, it's not what I want. And I know that the people who go against social norms, the gutterpunks and freaks and rejects and unschoolers, sure alot of "them" are screwed up, so are the rest of "us". But when you consciously make the decision to do what you want, what makes you happy, instead of drifting into situations and wishing for something else and wondering why you're unhappy, it seems like you have a much greater chance of being happy and doing some good in your life.

And yeah, I definitely agree with what Rick said about how some people just don't get along, and while it's pretty easy to find just a few people you like to share an apartment with or something (and even that usually falls apart in the end!), a whole community would not be easy at all. Sometimes you just dislike someone and someone else you DO like is really good friends with them, so you have to hang out with them. That seems like what would happen in an unschooling community, because while your circle of friends would all be people you like, their circles would clash with yours, and there would be so many circles it would look like the friggin Olympic symbol :)

Anyway. I'm very curious as to how this will turn out for all of you, I wish you the best, and I'll definitely visit, if my life leads me in a different direction. It's certainly a very comforting idea to have that all these wonderful people will be congregated somewhere out there, I don't know why :)

Thoughts Added on the Wikiboard, as opposed to the past emails posted here

It takes a little time to find people you really like, and even more time for them to notice you and become your friends. In my city I have no close friends at all, but I interact with people all the time.... at work, taking Aikido, volunteering, etc. Most of them are just casual friends, but some of them I want to become closer to. I want to fit into their group, to belong, to be the kind of person they want to hang out with. I'm not exactly sure how to do this, but I think it's starting to happen. Two people, a boy and girl, invited me to hang out with them later... they're really friendly and open, and I think they like me as much as I like them.

Thing is, it's not easy to find those kinds of people. I think the best thing to do is to extend ourselves outwards, to reach other people we like and we feel a connection to. To draw them into our groups, into ourselves, and let them do the same to us. It's a scary thing to do.... I can't say that I'm very good at it myself yet, but I think it's worth it. I always feel good, more confident, when someone reaches out to me. I would like to return the favor. I think we all should.

~Eryn

~*~

I've heard so many times that I have to "get out of the house" to find friends and good people in my city. I never really believed it until now. Thing is that the Internet takes less time; out in the open world making friends takes time. And patience. I have a hard time being patient, but the idea of having people around me so often is worth it. Talking to people face to face is worth it. Feeling their energy more directly is worth it.

I gave up babysitting because I hated it. I hated being trapped in my house for eight hours a day, and then having no energy to go out and do anything afterwards. When I found myself looking for a job outside my home I wondered if I was doing the right thing, or if I was just making a mistake. I wondered if I would hate it even more than babysitting. There is certainly more of a risk in going out of home, but you find so much. For me, it wasn't just from work: it was from volunteering, Aikido, and maybe just walking around the city and discovering new things. I am finding awesome people who don't live thousands of miles away, a novelty for me. People who want to get to know me, and hang out with me... real possiblities for friendships.

And it is so worth it.

~Eryn

how come I'm the only one who posts here?? :P Never fear for you are alone no longer. :-)

From Ruth:

I have had this kind of idea in my head to for oh so long. I would love to come up with a LARGE peice of land (somewhere fairly warm with a good growing season so we can grow a lot of our own food) and build a community/village there. I think as far as the getting along with people thing goes.... Any where you go there will be people you like and those you don't. You just don't hang out with the ones you don't like and try to remember that the ones you do like may like the ones you don't like. (Did I confuse any one with that?) Any how my idea is a large central meeting area similar to the lodge at camp with an attched shared living area for those who are newly arived or just prefer to live that way and smaller houses nearby (or far away) for those who whould like more privacy. I think that the houses should be simple small buildings that the community as a group (unless someone WANTED to build it on there own.) would build when a new one was needed. There would be a large garden (and perhaps a resonable sized green house for the winter time) so we could grow our own foods. As well as a barn and pastures so we could have animals, eaither for pets or, for those who would eat meat, we could raise them for food. Any how this is my idea on the whole situation. Please feel free to point out any problems you see with it so I can show you how i think that problem could be worked out.

Ruth

Like a lot of you, I haven't met any of the people who post on wiki or chat on IRC. But just by reading and e-mailing and chatting with everyone, I would soooo totally start something like what's been discussed above. Even just on wiki, there is such a feeling of community and openness that is extremely refreshing from what I'm used to being surounded by. Next fall I'm planning on going to college full time somewhere out of Alaska. I don't know yet where I'm going, or what I want to major in, but I do know that I would luv to be able to live somewhere near all you guys. I really like the idea of having a co-op apartment building (on another page), or even just getting together with a few people and renting a house. I'd like to get in touch with anyone who's interested in being room mates etc... just think, we start small, a few like minded unschoolers and we gradually grow to a full sized community. E-mail me!! dieda_marie at hotmail.com ~Jasmine S.

Quo Vadis is Coming...

Also see:

• CobCastle
• AircraftCarrier
• TheGatheringPlace
• TheHonourableCatHerderAward
• CreatingCommunity
• NanoTech